I have noticed a problem when interviewing entry-level candidates in the recent past. These are well-educated, beautifully-presented candidates, with good CVs; but they have a problem.
The problem is they sound like morons.
Why? Because they pepper their speech with qualifiers and irritators and because they don't seem to be capable of uttering simple, emphatic, declarative sentences.
Now, on the one hand, this is a good thing - it makes my job as an interviewer much easier as I can winnow out the most incoherent candidates with relative ease. On another hand, this makes my life much easier because my career management practice is kept busy by unsuccessful candidates who come along to Fortify "looking for a few pointers" on where they are going wrong at interview. On yet another hand, it makes me very sad that the combined efforts of parents and teachers are producing a generation of people who sound like idiots.
I came across an article in one of the Sunday newspapers a while back that captured this for me. The reporter interviewed a series of teenagers by the simple expedient of leaving her Dictaphone in the middle of the table and then WROTE DOWN EVERY WORD those teenagers had uttered. Here's Holly, aged 16, from Dublin:
I like going out with my friends and, like, we sometimes go to the cinema, or just, like, go to someone's house and just hang around or, like, we'd go to the Wes [a teenage disco in Dublin]. Like, it's not bad at all, like, I love going there.
You'll find it's all different schools going there and, like, all, like, my friends are in different schools as well, so it's good. I was thinking of doing event management, and then, like, maybe doing a business course first and moving on to that. I think they have like, a bad reputation, but like, not all teenagers are bad. I don't know any that would be rebellious.
I have, like, just a good amount of freedom, like, not too much but, like, I'm allowed go out a lot and, like, go out with my friends and stuff. Like, my parents wouldn't be really strict, but they'd be, like, normal strict, like. They wouldn't let me go off to town at night, like. If I'd want to do something, my parents would give me money. So I wouldn't really know anything about the recession.Mostly, like, my sister Georgia would be my influence because she is a model, but, like, she's always been, like, my sister – she hasn't, like, changed or anything because she's in the newspapers and stuff.
Most of the guys that I hang around with, like, we're really good friends, so I wouldn't mind if I went out with no make-up on, but, like, then I would go out with make-up on, but if I didn't have any make-up on and I met them on the street, like, I'd say "Hi." I wouldn't, like, mind.
Is it just me, or does Holly seem to have difficulty uttering a simple sentence?
Is it just me, or does Holly sound, like, just a little uncertain - about everything?
Is it just me, or does Holly sound like a gushing, incoherent, half-wit?
I'm not trying to be cruel or mean here folks, I'm really not. But I wouldn't hire Holly to put up a shed in my garden, much less to represent my company to ... like, anyone.
I have written about this before and referenced the film Clueless with Alicia Silverstone, in which she brilliantly parodied this vacant, Valley Girl mode of delivery. It seems to me that a whole generation missed the joke - because they started copying her! One of the commenters on that post remarked: "Ten years ago, talking like this was satire. Now it is how US vice-presidential nominees articulate their views. Sigh." Sigh indeed ... Have another little read of those words of wisdom from Holly:
I like going out with my friends and, LIKE, we sometimes go to the cinema, or just, LIKE, go to someone's house and just hang around or, LIKE, we'd go to the Wes. LIKE, it's not bad at all, LIKE; I love going there.
You'll find it's all different schools going there and, LIKE, all, LIKE, my friends are in different schools as well, so it's good. I was thinking of doing event management, and then, LIKE, maybe doing a business course first and moving on to that. I think they have LIKE a bad reputation, but LIKE, not all teenagers are bad. I don't know any that would be rebellious.
I have, LIKE, just a good amount of freedom, LIKE, not too much but, LIKE, I'm allowed go out a lot and, LIKE, go out with my friends and stuff. LIKE, my parents wouldn't be really strict, but they'd be, LIKE, normal strict, LIKE. They wouldn't let me go off to town at night, LIKE. If I'd want to do something, my parents would give me money. So I wouldn't really know anything about the recession.
Mostly, LIKE, my sister Georgia would be my influence because she is a model, but, LIKE, she's always been, LIKE, my sister – she hasn't, LIKE, changed or anything because she's in the newspapers and stuff.
Most of the guys that I hang around with, LIKE, we're really good friends, so I wouldn't mind if I went out with no make-up on, but, LIKE, then I would go out with make-up on, but if I didn't have any make-up on and I met them on the street, LIKE, I'd say "Hi." I wouldn't, LIKE, mind.
Is it just me or is that far too many uses of the word LIKE? I was at a marvellous evening of storytelling some months back and shared a few pieces and thoughts with the audience. When I read out those gems of Holly's, the audience rocked with laughter and I'm sorry to say I don't think they were laughing with Holly ...
UPDATE: The male of the species does this too. The ubiquitous filler-word for females is "like", the males seem to favour "ya know" and "sorta" – frequently with an interrogative lilt in their tone. Why are these people afraid of sounding like they know something, like they're sure of something? Are certainty, lucidity and knowledge completely outmoded concepts now?
UPDATE: The male of the species does this too. The ubiquitous filler-word for females is "like", the males seem to favour "ya know" and "sorta" – frequently with an interrogative lilt in their tone. Why are these people afraid of sounding like they know something, like they're sure of something? Are certainty, lucidity and knowledge completely outmoded concepts now?
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11 comments:
Unfortunately, it is difficult to agree without using terms such as "back in the day", etc. The danger here is of course coming across like an old crusty codger. But I'm in full agreement (or, if I want to attempt to sound younger, I, like totally agree? - I need to add the question mark just to show the questioning intonation).
Unfortunately, it is fashion. It may eventually go out of style, or it may not. If it remains in style, people like us who hate it will cease to be relevant, and it will be just accepted everywhere.
..and if you think this is bad, let me tell you about the third level lecturer who failed a student due to poor result, and bad attendance. He was instructed to find a way to pass him. The student, for their part was told to write a letter to his lecturer to explain his attendance issues for the year. Whilst I don't know of the actual content, I've been reliably informed it was written in txt speak.
De reason I missed 2 many dayz b4 easter woz...
etc.
I can only offer a *sigh* of support.
I was talking to a senior lecturer a few days ago who told me a similar tale - no-one seems to be willing to stand up to this generation and tell them that it's not good enough.
The upshot of that is when I end up conducting a bullying investigation and have to tell the 'victim' that they're not being bullied - they are being MANAGED by a manager who simply requires them to operate to the standards of the business. These employees have literally never heard a critical word directed at them in their lives and are horrified when I investigate their complaint and 'side' with the boss.
Methinks this does not bode well ...
hello Rowan,
Re the "like" issue - I agree with you that people in a job interview need to speak a little more formally than usual in order to appear adults and potential business leaders. Plus, it is much easier to understand straight sentences! This is definitely a speech convention job interviewees need to know!
In defence of these teenagers,though, you'll notice that really they're using 'like" etc in place of fillers like "um","er", etc, that past generations were known for, at least in that period before the 1960's!
"Like" and even "you know" seems to give some thinking room for people before they commit themselves to the next part of their sentences, many of which in the conversation are actually being used to evaluate their circumstances rather than being used to recite daily event lists.
This is, too, casual talk among equals, most conventions of which will be discarded as they grow up.
And people often adopt group speech patterns almost unconsciously - it's part of its speech culture.
I certainly wouldn't defend using this kind of talk in the workplace and if people lose a position because of it, or warrant some speech training, so be it.
But it seems a little sad that a bunch of teenagers discussing quite serious topics in their lives are being derided by adults who probably once spoke quite similarly in their teen years.
Just out of interest, and meaning no disrespect, have you noticed the deliberately obfuscatory language used by elements of the civil service? The EU functionaries? There are some business and government forms, that, no matter how well-educated you are, simply cannot be understood without a lawyer present.
At least with the teens you can actually understand what they're saying! ;)
Happy New Year!
PS - is there a problem with the comments section? I generally have to post my comment once before the Visual verification code appears in its field. Does anyone else have this issue?
Apologies for part two of this post. Naturally I thought up my main points after I posted the first post!! Plus I wanted to read your post again, and respond to your - no doubt rhetorical - questions:
"Is it just me, or does Holly seem to have difficulty uttering a simple sentence?"
No - she sounds (or rather looks like) - she's trying to articulate a statement that she hadn't really considered before. Something she did not have down pat.
"Is it just me, or does Holly sound, like, just a little uncertain - about everything?"
You mention in your post that the journalist "interviewed" these teenagers by leaving her taperecorder on the table.
Holly may sound a little uncertain because her statements actually seem to be a series of responses to a series of questions posed by - an interviewer!
Since you don't mention whether the journo asked the questions first and THEN let the tape run, I don't know whether there were questions posed (by her) and answered in turn (by the teens), or whether the INTERVIEW was conducted by the journo giving the kids a question sheet and asking to them to respond to each question in turn.
She may sound a little uncertain but as I mentioned above, that would be because she was being asked to discuss issues she may not have thought about before that interview session.
"Is it just me, or does Holly sound like a gushing, incoherent, half-wit?"
Actually I think it's just you Rowan. Deplorable as the incidence of "like" may be, you yourself pointed out that "like" is a filler word. Holly has simply used a verbal filler instead of taking a deep breath or pausing. Though she does have several sentences in most of her statement so she does know about full stops!!
Each of Holly's statements (which I'm assuming is a respnse to actual or implied questions in this INTERVIEW) sounds like a reasonable thoughtful response to a question put by a stranger.
I would guess this journalist was asking question about what teens do in their area, what the schools are like, how they react to public impressions of teens, relationships with their relatives etc.
I'm afraid that your audience - the one that was laughing AT Holly - was indulging in a sycophantic laugh along with you, their leader/presenter in an attempt to show how superior they were to this teen who gee, can't even speak properly!
Wouldn't want to show they disagree with the guy who's showing them what's what in the job world! Some one might think they're a right dimbulb!
Sorry again Rowan, the reason they laughed, is because, yeah, it is funny from a distance, but that good old bugbear conformity raised his little head. I mean, you were addressing a bunch of corporates who want to look good in each other's eyes, how else would they respond?
I thinh the "like" thing, personally, is pretty amusing, but I'm afraid that apart from the unsuitability of speaking that way in the office environment, I mus disagree with your conclusions regarding Holly's responses/ statements.
Interesting issue, as always.
Apologies for part two of this post. Naturally I thought up my main points after I posted the first post!! Plus I wanted to read your post again, and respond to your - no doubt rhetorical - questions:
"Is it just me, or does Holly seem to have difficulty uttering a simple sentence?"
No - she sounds (or rather looks like) - she's trying to articulate a statement that she hadn't really considered before. Something she did not have down pat.
"Is it just me, or does Holly sound, like, just a little uncertain - about everything?"
You mention in your post that the journalist "interviewed" these teenagers by leaving her taperecorder on the table.
Holly may sound a little uncertain because her statements actually seem to be a series of responses to a series of questions posed by - an interviewer!
Since you don't mention whether the journo asked the questions first and THEN let the tape run, I don't know whether there were questions posed (by her) and answered in turn (by the teens), or whether the INTERVIEW was conducted by the journo giving the kids a question sheet and asking to them to respond to each question in turn.
She may sound a little uncertain but as I mentioned above, that would be because she was being asked to discuss issues she may not have thought about before that interview session.
"Is it just me, or does Holly sound like a gushing, incoherent, half-wit?"
Actually I think it's just you Rowan. Deplorable as the incidence of "like" may be, you yourself pointed out that "like" is a filler word. Holly has simply used a verbal filler instead of taking a deep breath or pausing. Though she does have several sentences in most of her statement so she does know about full stops!!
Each of Holly's statements (which I'm assuming is a respnse to actual or implied questions in this INTERVIEW) sounds like a reasonable thoughtful response to a question put by a stranger.
I would guess this journalist was asking question about what teens do in their area, what the schools are like, how they react to public impressions of teens, relationships with their relatives etc.
I'm afraid that your audience - the one that was laughing AT Holly - was indulging in a sycophantic laugh along with you, their leader/presenter in an attempt to show how superior they were to this teen who gee, can't even speak properly!
Wouldn't want to show they disagree with the guy who's showing them what's what in the job world! Some one might think they're a right dimbulb!
Sorry again Rowan, the reason they laughed, is because, yeah, it is funny from a distance, but that good old bugbear conformity raised his little head. I mean, you were addressing a bunch of corporates who want to look good in each other's eyes, how else would they respond?
I thinh the "like" thing, personally, is pretty amusing, but I'm afraid that apart from the unsuitability of speaking that way in the office environment, I mus disagree with your conclusions regarding Holly's responses/ statements.
Interesting issue, as always.
Your Chilly Highness - wonderful, thought-provoking comments as always, and thank you for them.
Problems in comments on Blogger? Perennial, and sorry for them. I guess ya gets what ya pays for ...
"Like" and "Ya know" and "Kinda" and "Sorta" are fillers, but they signal a bigger problem to me. Watching social network users in their teenage years, I have observed that anyone who tries to communicate without using the lol / rofl / lmao / wu / nm / dd / soz speak is chided by their friends as being 'posh' or 'stuck-up'. To fit in, you simply HAVE to write this way.
And it would seem to me, that to fit in, you also HAVE to speak this way - uncertain, everything qualified, question marks at the end of sentences that aren't questions and so forth.
Was I an orator of note when I was a teenager? Of course not - still amn't. But the chiding I received with regard to my communication style in those years came from people who, with my best interests at heart, told me when I wasn't making sense.
That senior lecturer I mentioned above told me something that really bothered me. She is training a generation of teachers who don't read. They are supposed to be teaching the next generation to appreciate the language, in all its myriad forms, yet they don't read themselves. And many of them sound like Holly. Blind leading the blind? Race to the bottom? Yup.
As to the plain English thing? I couldn't agree with you more. I loved Q102's campaign to make small print big print and I remember puking in my own mouth when Bill Clinton said "Well that depends on what your definition of 'is' is ..." during the blowjob trial. In medieval times, court proceedings were conducted in Latin so no-one less than a full-fledged scholar could defend himself. People will always use language to defend, monopolise and exclude, which makes it all the more important that we learn about language; learn to properly speak it and write it so we don't get marginalised and tricked in this way.
I am sure every generation since the caves has had the same discussion - "It wasn't like that in my day! Look at them with their fancy-pantsy spears! In my day, you used a sharpened rock! ..." But the current mode of delivery, allied with the slackening of academic standards is just not a good idea!
(By the way, the audience at the storytelling evening was late teens to early 20s with a few 30-somethings dotted here and there. Not a corporate animal in sight. They laughed at her because she was an extreme example of creeping inarticulacy. I'm sure Holly has an average or better IQ. She's not stupid, she just SOUNDS stupid. And people are going to make up their minds about her in 5 seconds flat on the basis of how she sounds. It's not her fault - it's her parents' fault, it's her teachers' fault and it's the fault of those who are teaching the teachers.)
Stephen Fry had a great rant ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY ) about enjoying language and not getting hung up on misplaced apostrophes and I agree with him - until the misplaced apostrophe is exploited by some literate lawyer who uses the 'letter of the law' to win a spurious case. The problem is, we can't just teach correct use of apostrophes to lawyers (and we don't!), we need to teach it to everyone.
If you have a hyper-educated elite and the rest of the population is a semi-literate, ignorant, mob; you have to hope that the elite are nice people who won't exploit their advantages of power and education. If history shows us anything, it shows us that elites tend not to be particularly cuddly in their intentions.
Hi Rowan,
thanks for clarifying the nature of the audience at the storytelling evening. My original point still stands though - I don't think she sounds stupid at all, for my original reasons.
As to your audience, they may not have been corporates but I'll bet a tinker to a lemon they were eager to sound well-schooled and snobby at another's expense, so in a way my point regarding that stands too.
Re your important point about teaching teachers who don't read. I'm afraid that's kind of a worldwide problem Both the UK and Australia had school principals who forbade their teachers to teach their kids spelling! That's right. I spoke to a teacher last year from West Aust. whose colleagues were forbidden to teach spelling - the principal used to check on them! They taught spelling anyway, but surreptitiously. That program has changed recently apparently, but that's ten years of damage done.
Re the UK, I read an article where a principal would not allow teachers to correct kids spelling mistakes. he eventually allowed them to do so, but up to a limit of 5 per piece of work. How's that for training?
The reasons for all this are too complicated to go into right now, but yes, it is to keep elites in their own positions and the ill education of genrations of school kids is quite deliberate.
As to the equality "you sound posh" issue, well, a lot of adults talk like that too. Not in those words, but a lot of talk from adults about someone being "arrogant" or "elitist" often comes their own sense of inferiority. It's very prevalent in Ireland, UK, Australia.
It's a shame the kids can't enjoy using whole words occasionally, even while texting like mad. BTW, a lot of that abbreviation is for efficiency and I must say it's interesting to prove some points of linguistics in terms of recognition of words. If you're used to typing out whole words, though, it can be wearisome.
I hope you can triumph in this battle - there are lots of bright kids who don't deserve being deliberately un-educated, and in terms of language use, it has been shown that developing reading skills is the most important thing enabling a person to progress in school and up the social ladder.
Happy New Year!
Hi Rowan,
thanks for clarifying the nature of the audience at the storytelling evening. My original point still stands though - I don't think she sounds stupid at all, for my original reasons.
As to your audience, they may not have been corporates but I'll bet a tinker to a lemon they were eager to sound well-schooled and snobby at another's expense, so in a way my point regarding that stands too.
Re your important point about teaching teachers who don't read. I'm afraid that's kind of a worldwide problem Both the UK and Australia had school principals who forbade their teachers to teach their kids spelling! That's right. I spoke to a teacher last year from West Aust. whose colleagues were forbidden to teach spelling - the principal used to check on them! They taught spelling anyway, but surreptitiously. That program has changed recently apparently, but that's ten years of damage done.
Re the UK, I read an article where a principal would not allow teachers to correct kids spelling mistakes. he eventually allowed them to do so, but up to a limit of 5 per piece of work. How's that for training?
The reasons for all this are too complicated to go into right now, but yes, it is to keep elites in their own positions and the ill education of genrations of school kids is quite deliberate.
As to the equality "you sound posh" issue, well, a lot of adults talk like that too. Not in those words, but a lot of talk from adults about someone being "arrogant" or "elitist" often comes their own sense of inferiority. It's very prevalent in Ireland, UK, Australia.
It's a shame the kids can't enjoy using whole words occasionally, even while texting like mad. BTW, a lot of that abbreviation is for efficiency and I must say it's interesting to prove some points of linguistics in terms of recognition of words. If you're used to typing out whole words, though, it can be wearisome.
I hope you can triumph in this battle - there are lots of bright kids who don't deserve being deliberately un-educated, and in terms of language use, it has been shown that developing reading skills is the most important thing enabling a person to progress in school and up the social ladder.
Happy New Year!
My boyfriend and I are both from Southern California and we both use ... I can't think of the phrase I usually use so for now I'll go with 'non-aggressive' or 'wishy-washy' language like "you know" "like" "or something" "wellllll" ...etc.
I do it more extensively than he does - its not poor communication skills (in my case as an adult, although I didn't learn to speak assertively until my early 20s). Its cultural for us - we find it uncomfortable and slightly rude when people are very direct and straight forward with their statements. I hesitate to extend this to all of California, but it certainly extends to coastal Californians of a certain age, like say between 5 and 65 (if you grew up here, my VP does it sometimes and he's 50).
So, I'm completely behind teaching people to speak in clean confident sentences for things like job interviews and meetings - If you sound confident, other people will listen to you (as long as you aren't being an ass...). But in social situations - EVEN workplace casual conversations talking like this doesn't necessarily make me sound like a gushing incoherent half-wit amongst others of my subculture.
The real problem with those interviewees was that they didn't prepare enough. If I know what I want to say, what kind of image I want to present, what the basic answers to the questions I might get asked are, I know I won't use any "like" or "you know" statements. Or at least a minimum of such. If I'm flustered and unprepared and have to formulate a response to each question you ask on the fly, I'll probably do it a lot more.
I assume the girl in your example knows how to clean up her language (although its iffy at that age, as I mentioned I didn't really get good at it til my early 20s) - the problem is really that she didn't take any time to prepare to do so.
P.S. I don't know about outside the US, but the "Like, you know, whatever man" thing kind of came from the hippies so...there are certainly people in their 60s and maybe 70s who still talk like that around here. Most of them cleaned up and corporatized, but the hold outs still talk like that.
Anonymous - I find it interesting the sheer wordcount that this post has generated in comments. I have had other posts much more widely commented upon, but few so wordily.
You make an interesting point - the cultural nuances here are considerable. I remember a fascinating lecture which touched upon the difficulties of communication between people from Italy, Japan, England, the US and Kenya. Just the differing speech and pause patterns make for some very tricky situations. And clearly, as there has been since the caves, there is a yawning cultural chasm between old farts like me and bright-eyed young sparkies like Holly.
My point is this - the old farts don't have to vary their speech patterns very much in order to be taken seriously, the young sparkies have to put up all sorts of masks and modes in order to do so. With all the other demands of a meeting / interview / presentation going on, why would you place all that extra strain on your brain?
For now, the old farts are in charge and, if you don't speak properly, they will punish you accordingly. :)
As part of the generation that Clueless was aimed at, I have to agree a lot of people missed the satire.
Still, I must wonder, have their really been "combined efforts of parents and teachers"?
I don't think so.
Call it out. Perhaps these people don't realize how often they use the words simply because it's become groupspeak.
It's annoying as all and I wouldn't carry a conversation, much less hire, anyone with this lack of vocabulary.
Still, has anyone told them that? Or are we all being "too polite" by brushing it off when we hear it and then trashing them behind their backs?
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